tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post6647600622947319601..comments2024-03-22T03:59:39.188-07:00Comments on Dive into Worldbuilding: Workshop: Rendering a Created Language in EnglishJuliette Wadehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02879627074920760712noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-64648856447372415402009-02-18T14:25:00.000-08:002009-02-18T14:25:00.000-08:00Juliette,By "up close and personal", I&#...Juliette,<br><br>By "up close and personal", I'm trying to keep speech sounds that would not travel far underwater. So the vocal part of the formal language matches closely between air breathers and water breathers. <br><br>The colour change can be both warning (flash bright to warn the herd a predator approaches) and camouflage (okay, the rest of the herd knows there's a predator, now hide yourself). <br><br>By "mispronounce", I meant that emotions can sometimes overwhelm intended responses - so when a subordinate is forced to agree to your wishes, they might skinflash red anger for a moment, before they get themselves under control and turn submission white. Or they might vent the pheremones of fear rather than acquiescence.<br><br>I'm thinking that the earliest water-arcati had to move from sea-mammal-style air breathing to true water breathers because surfacing to breathe put them at the mercy of their enemies in ships.David Marshallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-87737987543908775692009-02-17T14:16:00.000-08:002009-02-17T14:16:00.000-08:00Juliette,It is just local color, at the moment, an...Juliette,<br><br>It is just local color, at the moment, anyway. And, yes, Ringo is pretty much your average human(oid). But for his black hair and eyes and his coppery skin tone, he looks very much like Bronte and Charlie. I haven't entirely decided... perhaps indigenes are smaller than Settlers. In Chapter One, Charlie has an exchange with an acquaintence who is considerably shorter than himself, and though I don't state it in the text, it's in my mind that the acquaintence is also an indigene. Of course, charlie's no shrimp. At six' five" or possibly six' six", he's taller than most people. That would still put walter, the acquaintence, at about six feet. Bronte's more like six' four", and slight whereas Charlie has more bulk...<br><br>All of which is merely to say that indigenes could be physically smaller than at least some settlers without being the size of hobbits or dwarves.Catreonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15959115298646880631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-82762999570873562662009-02-17T09:16:00.000-08:002009-02-17T09:16:00.000-08:00David,By "up-close and personal" I'm...David,<br><br>By "up-close and personal" I'm assuming you mean that this language form is not intended for public speaking. I can see that someone might feel awkward speaking the formal language, maybe at a loss for the grace required or not knowing the most appropriate phrase. I have a harder time thinking that anyone would have difficulty because of "mispronunciation" as such. It's interesting to consider the possibility of the skinflashing as being old, but it would probably be a good idea to figure out some basic evolutionary reason why they'd have it. Was it initially for camouflage? For conveying mood? How, and for what reason, would that kind of communication become complex and symbolic? If you're wanting communication with humans, you're setting the humans a huge task with a color language, and you may need them to rely on translator machines or some such. Did you decide whether the arcati can still breathe air or not?Juliette Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02879627074920760712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-64197078263444798692009-02-17T09:10:00.000-08:002009-02-17T09:10:00.000-08:00Catreona,That's an interesting exchange. Hard...Catreona,<br><br>That's an interesting exchange. Hard to judge as I have no idea of its relation to the main conflict; it seems mostly like local color. You might want to give a more thorough physical impression of your alien, as I have a hard time visualizing him as anything but generic humanoid at the moment. There are lots of opportunities there for revelations about each of the characters and their views of one another - that might be fun to explore. You might also want to give some attention to whether Treeplanter has an accent or other sign of dialect - you could convey this most simply with half a line of description at the start.Juliette Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02879627074920760712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-48142173058217437852009-02-16T15:24:00.000-08:002009-02-16T15:24:00.000-08:00Current thoughts...The formal language is close-up...Current thoughts...<br><br>The formal language is close-up and personal. It involves spoken words, colour changes and pheremones. Getting it all correct takes a lot of study and concentration.<br><br>Informal language at close range is mostly spoken, although there would be some colour and scent. But nobody laughs if you "mispronounce" a word or two.<br><br>At a distance, colour and some sign language is the main channel of communication, with perhaps some pheremones if the currents are right or the character loses control over there scent glands in times of stress.<br><br>To render it in English, something will be said, or signed, or skinflashed, or what the scent says to another arcati will be explained.<br><br>Thoughts?David Marshallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-76690239055906660332009-02-16T13:36:00.000-08:002009-02-16T13:36:00.000-08:00Juliette,I'm still finding occurrences of OK w...Juliette,<br><br>I'm still finding occurrences of OK which need to be replaced with all right; which has led me, somewhat impatiently, to the conclusion that I need a good substitute for OK. That is, while all right is certainly serviceable, something analogous to OK, especially in the speech of kids and young adults, would be better. Haven't come up with such a term yet, but the idea is stewing and brewing in the back regions.<br><br>A second item that may actually be fully ontopic for a change: Here's a brief excerpt.<br><br><em>We decided to enter Fairport harbor under sail, so it took a little more than the four hours I'd reckoned on. Still, we came into the busy and picturesque little harbor just after noon. The clerk, an Aboriginal named Ringo Treeplanter, who'd pulled the lunch shift was an old buddy of mine, as many harbor clerks in many harbors were. So, much of the half hour we spent with him in the small, coolly leaf dappled office was spent in chat.<br><br>Sinclair spoke to him in the Aboriginal language, spoke with a fluency I wasn’t sure if I admired or envied. Treeplanter replied. Turning to me with a broad, delighted grin he said, "Your friend, Shepherd, has the heart of a Son of Vracally. He is a good man and will prove a good friend to you. Love him well." Sinclair gave a slight bow, looking mildly embarrassed.<br><br>"I thank you for your words, Treeplanter," I answered, using the rather mannered, formal speech that seemed appropriate in response to such an endorsement. "I shall carry them in the heart of my memory and heed them well."<br><br>Treeplanter nodded, satisfied. Switching to British he asked Sinclair, "So, what brings you to Falibana?"<br><br>"Not a what, but a who," Sinclair answered, grinning mischievously. I glared at him, or tried to.<br><br>Treeplanter laughed, a low, gravelly sound deep in his chest. "Ah," he said. "You too admire la belle Jocelyn?"<br><br>"To know her is to admire her," Sinclair said gallantly.<br><br>"That is true," Treeplanter said. "She is a fine young lady. Our friend Shepherd is most fortunate to have won her heart."<br><br>I cleared my throat. "How are Sarah and the little ones?" I asked pointedly.<br><br>Treeplanter’s black eyes gleamed with pleasure, lighting his copper colored face. "Sarah is very well, thank you. But, you would not recognize Huldah and Daniel. They are five years old now; bright as pearls and curious as magpies. And, the vocabulary of them! I think Sarah must have swallowed Van-Heusen’s Unabridged Dictionary and the whole series of the Encyclopedia Britannica when she was pregnant with them. Sometimes they ask us questions that, we not only can’t answer, but have never thought of asking. You must come see them. You too, Sinclair. Sarah would be delighted."<br><br>We thanked him, saying we’d look in around teatime. Then Sinclair stopped at a café, where he said he'd wait wile I went on to Jocelyn's. I squeezed his shoulder and passed on, along the harbor front boulevard. I turned up a steep transverse street, and then into Sea View Gardens.</em>Catreonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15959115298646880631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-937390557356997344.post-30809018913317270782009-02-15T21:28:00.000-08:002009-02-15T21:28:00.000-08:00I'm not sure yet whether the colour language w...I'm not sure yet whether the colour language will be something that the arcati have had for a long time, or something new the genetic engineers have added.<br><br>If it's old, combine the colour and scent languages, and perhaps there is no need for verbal language at all (of course, that makes it hard for me to translate it into English, the reader to understand it, and the human explorers to decihper it).<br><br>Although, as you say, colour and scent may be best for emotional content.<br><br>Much to think on.David Marshallnoreply@blogger.com